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baxissimo
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 241
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: DSSS net |
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I'd like to see some support for dsss in various bindings projects.
The goal would be able to cherry pick from the various bindings using something like 'dsss net install bindings-win32'. And the various dsss.conf files could be the responsibility of each project group.
The big problem I see is that dsss isn't really designed to handle this kind of setup with lots of independent code in the same directory. Personally I think this is a design flaw of dsss. If you want to have a dsss.conf for the modules win32.foo, win32.bar, etc. That dsss.conf file has to live in the directory above win32/. So with the bindings project, in order to allow each project to have a separate dsss.conf, each project will have to be pushed down an extra directory level. So bindings/gtk/gtk.d instead of bindings/gtk.d, and bindings/win32/win32/foo.d instead of bindings/win32/foo.d.
Of course that makes life annoying for anyone who doesn't want to use dsss.
One thing thing might be a simple fix on the dsss side would be if Gregor would allow dsss files to include the target name in the filename. So for instance you could have a dsss.win32.conf which gets picked ahead of plain dsss.conf when trying to build the win32 project.
Anyway, if there's interest here in having support for bindings in dsss, hopefully we can work with Gregor to figure out a way.
For library developers I think DSSS is a great thing. It's great to be able to say to users that all they need to do to use my library is "dsss net install mylib". As long as bindings projects don't support dsss, then installation for a bindings-using projects cannot be made that simple. |
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jcc7
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 657
Location: Muskogee, OK, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: Re: DSSS net |
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I haven't tried using DSSS yet, but I'm not against other people yet. 
| baxissimo wrote: | | The big problem I see is that dsss isn't really designed to handle this kind of setup with lots of independent code in the same directory. Personally I think this is a design flaw of dsss. If you want to have a dsss.conf for the modules win32.foo, win32.bar, etc. That dsss.conf file has to live in the directory above win32/. . . . |
Why can't the dsss.conf file be in the win32/ that would be a nice option to have in my opinion. I'm not familiar with the current DSSS syntax, but it seems like there could be some kind of "code=.." (parent directory) syntax or whatever.
| baxissimo wrote: | | One thing thing might be a simple fix on the dsss side would be if Gregor would allow dsss files to include the target name in the filename. So for instance you could have a dsss.win32.conf which gets picked ahead of plain dsss.conf when trying to build the win32 project. |
That would help, too, but I don't know why some of the code can't be stored in the same directory with the config file. |
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baxissimo
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 241
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: DSSS net |
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| jcc7 wrote: | | Why can't the dsss.conf file be in the win32/ that would be a nice option to have in my opinion. I'm not familiar with the current DSSS syntax, but it seems like there could be some kind of "code=.." (parent directory) syntax or whatever. |
Well first off, I already proposed that to Gregor, and he didn't like it. You can find the discussion in the DSSS bug tracker somewhere. But I hadn't suggested allowing target-specific dsss.conf names before.
Second, in bindings there are some projects like GTK that just sit in the top level directory, so their dsss.conf would need to be in the top level directory too. Note that dsss is perfectly happy to have multiple projects in one dsss.conf, but that isn't good for the installation granularity of 'bindings'. Most people aren't going to need all the bindings, but rather one or two specific ones. And therefore it would be better if one could download the dsss.conf files that cover only the specifc projects someone needs. |
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jcc7
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 657
Location: Muskogee, OK, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: DSSS net |
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| baxissimo wrote: | | jcc7 wrote: | | Why can't the dsss.conf file be in the win32/ that would be a nice option to have in my opinion. I'm not familiar with the current DSSS syntax, but it seems like there could be some kind of "code=.." (parent directory) syntax or whatever. |
Well first off, I already proposed that to Gregor, and he didn't like it. You can find the discussion in the DSSS bug tracker somewhere. But I hadn't suggested allowing target-specific dsss.conf names before. |
I didn't know that he had already rejected that idea. Without understanding his reasons for rejecting it, I still think it'd be a superior solution to what you propose. I tried to find a ticket where Gregor said "No" flexibility in placing the DSSS and I couldn't find it (what I did find was that it sounds like this option could be available as a side-effect of adding a feature suggested by someone else).
From #110 (dsss.conf within the library directory):
| Gregor wrote: | | Anyway, my position on putting dsss.conf into directories other than the root of your source has always been "or, you could arrange your source sensibly." I feel that that could add undue confusion. While I'm fairly stubborn with my stances with respect to keeping DSSS on a tight reign, I'm always willing to have my position argued away, so I'll keep this open awaiting your response. |
At the bottom of the ticket, he stated it would be possible as a side-effect of #46 (Separate source folder).
I also thought that #109 (Need a way to specify an alternate dsss.conf) was interesting, but I'm not sure how relevant it is what you're talking about here. Whenever I start reading about DSSS my eyes glaze over. I don't know why that is. Maybe there are two many "S"'s in a row for me. Or maybe I'm just not advanced enough to ever have a need for DSSS. I've tried to use Rebuild, and it took me way to long to get it to do what I wanted it to do.
But your new proposal sounds like a decent second choice though. I think more flexibility would make DSSS more popular.
| baxissimo wrote: | | Second, in bindings there are some projects like GTK that just sit in the top level directory, so their dsss.conf would need to be in the top level directory too. Note that dsss is perfectly happy to have multiple projects in one dsss.conf, but that isn't good for the installation granularity of 'bindings'. Most people aren't going to need all the bindings, but rather one or two specific ones. And therefore it would be better if one could download the dsss.conf files that cover only the specifc projects someone needs. |
Since the Bindings project hasn't been "policed", I suspect there is some room for some reorganization. |
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baxissimo
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 241
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: DSSS net |
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| jcc7 wrote: | I tried to find a ticket where Gregor said "No" flexibility in placing the DSSS and I couldn't find it (what I did find was that it sounds like this option could be available as a side-effect of adding a feature suggested by someone else).
From #110 (dsss.conf within the library directory):
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Yes, that's the one. Notice the submitter is me, baxissimo.
Ah, I hadn't noticed that he added that. Great.
Yes, that was mine too.
| jcc7 wrote: |
Whenever I start reading about DSSS my eyes glaze over. I don't know why that is. |
It's the documentation. Unfortunately, Gregor seems to have a gift for explaining a thousand details about what happens in this or that situation without ever revealing the general principles of operation. And there are some features which just aren't documented at all.
| jcc7 wrote: | | baxissimo wrote: | | in bindings there are some projects like GTK that just sit in the top level directory, so their dsss.conf would need to be in the top level directory too. |
Since the Bindings project hasn't been "policed", I suspect there is some room for some reorganization. |
For non-dsss users, it's nice to have all files organized the way they are so that all bindings can be checked out into one directory and included with a single -I flag. Not everyone uses or wants to use dsss, and for those that don't, adding dsss support shouldn't make life harder. |
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