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larsivi Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 Posts: 453 Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:27 pm Post subject: Nomination of possible members of DSLG |
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First off; The number of members and their roles should be discussed in the steering group thread.
Second off; I think all nominees should present themselves here with their real name (I think the responsibility is too big for any member to be anonymous.), who they are and their relevant experience and qualifications.
qbert has nominated:
Eric 'Pragma' Anderton
Kris 'antiAlias' Bell
Ben 'MinTL' Hinkle
Sean Kelly (I presume) |
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sean
Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 609 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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You've already got my name right. As for qualifications... I think forum participation and such is a far more useful resource than a resume-type list, but here's a bit of data anyway: I've been a profressional software engineer for ~12 years and know C++ and the STL pretty darn well. I've been a fairly active participant in most of the popular C++ groups for quite a while (comp.lang.c++.moderated, comp.std.c++, Boost) and know all sorts of acronyms, other languages, etc. Most of my project work has been in designing high-availability servers and distributed systems, and one of these says I'd like to get into AI research (swarms rule). I'm currently working at a company that does high-end financial software and am moving from some work on a hedge fund accounting package to do library programming on Solaris. D addresses many of the complaints I have about C++ and I think it has tremendous potential as a language.
Last edited by sean on Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pragma
Joined: 28 May 2004 Posts: 607 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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About myself: I've been a software engineer for going on 6 years now, but I've been familiar with c++ as early as 12 years ago. I consider myself an extremely lucky individual as the mid-nineties brought the information age to my very backdoor (literally, ask me sometime).
In my time as both a salaried employee and a freelance contractor all over the Dulles Corridor, I have gained a wealth in knowledge of programming languages, design/development techniques, and working with groups extremely diverse groups of people.
My bookshelf only has three useful books: Design Patterns, The UML Reference and the Pragmatic Programmer. They're all I've ever needed to work in any language; I always look up syntax online anyway.
I feel that D is one of the greatest things to happen to practical programming in a long while, and that this project should help boost its utility and appeal to other programmers. I have also founded the 'DSP' project here on dsource to also help D's appeal to others. I'm confident that 'Ares' will manage to accomplish this on a much bigger scale. _________________ -- !Eric.t.Anderton at gmail |
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qbert
Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Posts: 209 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Cool looks good! I don't think ben follows the forums I'll try to email him, and kris said he was going sailling, so well here from him when he gets back, does anyone else have any nonimations / thoughts ? |
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BenHinkle
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 Posts: 76
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:43 am Post subject: |
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What about Matthew Wilson? I don't always agree with his D code but he was the one who started the thread on the D newsgroup about phobos development.
As for myself being involved I suppose it depends on what the actual responsibilities are. Will this group be actively developing and designing or just reviewing and assembling other libraries? Why can't the design stuff be done on the main newsgroup where everyone can chime in. After the designs settle down it gets emailed to Walter who can put it in etc or std or send it back. If the point of this group is to be a sounding-board before people send things to Walter then that sounds fine to me. I just don't think I have the time (or desire) to rewrite Phobos.
anyhow, my history goes BASIC/Z80-assembly -> Pascal -> Object-Pascal/C -> C/C++ -> C++/Java -> C++/Java/MATLAB. Thrown in during school was lisp/scheme/Maple. I worked for Waterloo Maple (maker of Maple) for a couple of years. I've worked for MathWorks (makers of MATLAB) for 5 years. Before that got a phd in dynamical systems and worked on MacMath (math programs for the Mac). |
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sean
Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 609 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Matthew would be a good candidate if he's willing to do it.
And I think this group will be both building stuff and reviewing/assembling other libraries. Kind of like Boost is for C++. So it would be a sounding board of sorts, though I don't want to operate on the assumption that all of what's already in Phobos will stay there.
As for the forum... I agree that this project would get more visibility (and participation) if it were done in the DigitalMars newsgroups, but stuff has a way of getting missed in the general group. At least this way everything is still public for whoever is interested, and perhaps there could be a prominent link in the D Wiki or some such. I suppose an alternate would be to ask Walter to create another NG for library talk. |
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larsivi Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 Posts: 453 Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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sean wrote: | Matthew would be a good candidate if he's willing to do it.
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AFAIK, Matthew isn't willing (although he might want to help reviewing changes).
sean wrote: | I suppose an alternate would be to ask Walter to create another NG for library talk. |
This would be good. |
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jcc7
Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 657 Location: Muskogee, OK, USA
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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BenHinkle wrote: | As for myself being involved I suppose it depends on what the actual responsibilities are. Will this group be actively developing and designing or just reviewing and assembling other libraries? | My view is that the group should be made up of several types of members.
Drivers are the "in charge" people who try to keep the project on track by scheduling votes and breaking up fights.
Contributors are the people doing the actual work, submitting new or revised modules (Drivers are free to contribute if they want).
Voters would be everyone who wants to discuss and vote on proposed modules (including Drivers and Contributors).
BenHinkle wrote: | Why can't the design stuff be done on the main newsgroup where everyone can chime in. | That's fine with me if we can get a separate newsgroup created (digitalmars.d.ares?).
BenHinkle wrote: | After the designs settle down it gets emailed to Walter who can put it in etc or std or send it back. | Isn't this the status quo, though? And the general complaint is that Walter is too slow.
If there was a group that produced a library similar to Phobos (but better maintained), people could grab a .zip with the .lib and source for the new and improved Phobosish library. They could try before they buy, and we could pool our efforts rather competing for screen time in the main newsgroup.
BenHinkle wrote: | If the point of this group is to be a sounding-board before people send things to Walter then that sounds fine to me. I just don't think I have the time (or desire) to rewrite Phobos. | I don't believe that Phobos needs to be rewritten. (The module tree could use some reorganization, but that shouldn't require much effort.) If someone wants to rewrite or edit a module, fine. They can make the changes and bring it back to the group. Then the group can discuss and vote on whether the changes are beneficial.
But I don't think we should toss all of Phobos and work from a clean slate. I don't want to spend my time doing that either.[/list] |
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qbert
Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Posts: 209 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I don't believe that Phobos needs to be rewritten. |
I haven't looked at it in a while, but the last time i did the were many parts that looked inconsistent, and functioned just plain wrong.
from std.string
Code: |
char[] toString(char c)
{
char[] result = new char[2];
result[0] = c;
result[1] = 0;
return result[0 .. 1];
}
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While this has been fixed with a slice, its still kind of ugly. There is definetly work to be done.
So where are we now ? I think Eric and Sean have accepted, Ben are you in ? Kris is still on vacation i think, anyone else ? Sound off! As soon as DSLG as assembled, what should be the first task ?
Charlie |
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jcc7
Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 657 Location: Muskogee, OK, USA
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:08 am Post subject: |
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[quote="qbert"] Quote: | I don't believe that Phobos needs to be rewritten. |
I haven't looked at it in a while, but the last time i did the were many parts that looked inconsistent, and functioned just plain wrong.
from std.string
Code: |
char[] toString(char c)
{
char[] result = new char[2];
result[0] = c;
result[1] = 0;
return result[0 .. 1];
}
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qbert wrote: | While this has been fixed with a slice, its still kind of ugly. There is definetly work to be done. | Does it work? Sorry, I don't see what's wrong with that. What would you propose? I think every line is defensible.
qbert wrote: | So where are we now ? I think Eric and Sean have accepted, Ben are you in ? | I think it'd be easier to recruit Ben if you agreed with me on changing it a module at a time.
qbert wrote: | Kris is still on vacation i think, anyone else ? Sound off! As soon as DSLG as assembled, what should be the first task ? | If they (Eric, Sean, maybe Ben, possibly Kris) are the only ones to accept nominations, we could probably just hold a vote by acclamation (All in favor, say "Aye". "Aye!"). Two to four members seems like a good size to me. |
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qbert
Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Posts: 209 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Aye!
Quote: | Does it work? Sorry, I don't see what's wrong with that. What would you propose? I think every line is defensible. |
Eh ? Why would we need a null charater for a d string ? We only need 1 char allocated, and drop the null zero assignment id think.
But that was just one problem I had long time ago, not really a specific example i just opened phobos/src/string.d.
Quote: |
I think it'd be easier to recruit Ben if you agreed with me on changing it a module at a time.
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Yes , i agree on that one totally ( and your other post of the drivers / contributors / voters ) .Im not saying toss it out the window, but we need to address the problems that exist. And while Ben would be a great addition, if he's not really into it then we don't want to force him. We need some dedicated leaders .
Charlie |
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larsivi Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 Posts: 453 Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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jcc7 wrote: | If they (Eric, Sean, maybe Ben, possibly Kris) are the only ones to accept nominations, we could probably just hold a vote by acclamation (All in favor, say "Aye". "Aye!"). Two to four members seems like a good size to me. |
I think the four nominations of one person is far too little to have a vote. It's of course possible that everyone agree with the nominations, but I think it might be that too few have actually read this thread.
I agree with the nominations half-way, but I think we should look for diversified skills in the group, meaning that experience in other stuff than coding is of relevance, especially project management, inspirational skills, skill in seeing what's good in other's code, etc.
Also, I feel that the nominations are currently very anglo-centric. Is the japanase D scene interested in this? What about all the non-english europeans? The south-americans? |
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pragma
Joined: 28 May 2004 Posts: 607 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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larsivi wrote: | Also, I feel that the nominations are currently very anglo-centric. Is the japanase D scene interested in this? What about all the non-english europeans? The south-americans? |
I couldn't agree more. However, given that the interest in the project may be very well less than 20 active developers (and that may be a bit overblown), we're probably stuck with what we've got right now. I'm welcome to be wrong about this, and hope that I am: I want interest in this to grow.
We may just simply want to periodically revote on who's leading things, and who has charge of what portion of the project. This would allow things to change in the future in order to reflect new and improved directions, including broader international interest and support. _________________ -- !Eric.t.Anderton at gmail |
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kris
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 Posts: 1494 Location: South Pacific
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Folks;
I've been abstaining from making comment over the last week because I have some concerns - the foremost of which is this: writing good libraries is not as straightforward as it may seem. There's typically a lot of subtlety and tradeoff involved, and handling that effectively requires some practice. If that were not the case, then one might imagine Walter would have got it right, and this forum would not exist. I mean, Walter is a smart guy.
To draw an analogy: I'm lucky enough to have some very bright and capable friends ~ some of whom know a bit about construction. However, I wouldn't wish them to build the foundation for my house.
This PhobosRising thing is about building the foundation for a palace; the library is presumeably intended to be a crown jewel in the D arsenel. In terms of functionality, accessability, and setting a path for others to follow. This task needs smart people like yourselves, it needs good organization, and it needs some co-operation from Walter himself. But most of all, setting an overall design and/or direction needs true, solid, experience with the task at hand. If you guys have those skills, then great! It's just that I haven't noticed any discussion regarding said experience.
Another thing to consider is whether the DSLG should be an administrative body, a design group, or a bit of both. Currently, it seems headed toward "design group" mode. Naturally, you'd need different candidates for a different approach.
I do, very much, appreciate the nomination ~ but cannot accept. Instead, I'd like to cast my nomination for Lars, who seems quite keen on the organizational aspect. |
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jcc7
Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 657 Location: Muskogee, OK, USA
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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kris wrote: | This PhobosRising thing is about building the foundation for a palace; | I see the standard library as less of a foundation and more of toolbox. If my hammer is broken and my screwdriver is great condition, I'll get a new hammer and keep using the same screwdriver. (But the foundation concept has merit, too.)
kris wrote: | Another thing to consider is whether the DSLG should be an administrative body, a design group, or a bit of both. Currently, it seems headed toward "design group" mode. Naturally, you'd need different candidates for a different approach. | I think we need both administrators and designers. Right now we're trying to select administrators (but design know-how would definitely come in handy).
kris wrote: | I do, very much, appreciate the nomination ~ but cannot accept. Instead, I'd like to cast my nomination for Lars, who seems quite keen on the organizational aspect. | Fair enough. So now we have:
pragma: yes
sean: yes
larsivi: just nominated
BenHinkle: maybe
kris: no |
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